And they took me to another room and they explained that the baby had what they thought was ventriculomegaly or something. The scan was inconclusive, but the size of my little bump was measuring a lot smaller than it should have for 10 weeks. He suggested he perform an amniocentesis immediately, to rule out any chromosomal problems. Later, I did see and hold our baby. Although the anomaly scan is often called a 20-week scan, you may have it any time between 18 and 22 weeks, although it's usually done between 18 and 20 weeks. Within it are a number of recommendations for the communication of findings from ultrasounds. He was sure the consultant on Monday would see that the measurements were completely normal and that there was nothing to worry about. I remained positive, we researched lots of cases of mistaken dates, inconclusive scans, and compared them to our situation; scrutinising everything to try and believe it was all one big misunderstanding. Except for the persistent, nagging doubts. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) have produced a report on Termination of Pregnancy for Fetal Abnormality in England, Scotland and Wales (May 2010). . However, at the time neither of us could articulate that. Had 34wk scan last week and all is well - of all the babies found to have a two vessel cord, was told less than 6% experience any growth issues etc. I took my vitamins, stuck to the healthy diet and put on a brave face. Nights were impossible. For instance a couple who knew their baby was 'on the small size' were told he was fine at the 18-20 week scan, but discovered at 32 weeks that he had microcephaly. I feel empty and incomplete. I couldn't bring myself to push. Instead, we were shown to a room slightly away from the rest of the ward and the midwife stayed with us to talk through what was going to happen. And that was Monday afternoon. I had no issues at my 20wk scan with DD - and neither did any of my antenatal group (9 mums). There is more detailed information about the main conditions that are looked for during this scan on NHS.UK. And that was extraordinary to see the detail that that could offer. To view this licence, visit nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3 or write to the Information Policy Team, The National Archives, Kew, London TW9 4DU, or email: psi@nationalarchives.gov.uk. However painful and traumatic the labour was, it was better than what would happen at the end of it. It would be a personal tragedy for my partner and me, but that is all. Could she possibly have something that's not been detected? You will then be asked to raise your top to your chest and lower your skirt or trousers to your hips. Sam squeezed my hand and told me it was ok. The results come in stages. The first midwife seemed to understand what we were trying to say, and said she would ask the doctor to come and talk to us. We couldn't say we'd lost the baby, because he was still kicking away, but we couldn't pretend everything was fine, either. 20-week ultrasound (anomaly scan) - BabyCenter Australia I wasn't unduly worried at all. Eventually she got the measurements she wanted. 17/12/2020 17:13. My wife had been very, very healthy, more healthy than the first pregnancy, and of course was shattered by the fact that the news, the news was appalling, very serious faces. There is always a chance that a baby may be born with a health issue that scans could not have identified. I went away and came back, and she couldn't get a good picture. So we decided to book an early 10 week private scan. I was sat on the sofa working, my son was at nursery and my partner was in the bath. I'd had the scan in the scanning room, I can't remember what they call it now, it's silly, it's gone from my head. Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. These were said to be soft markers fo a range of trisomies, 2 of which were incompatible with life. I had no idea if we were doing the "right" thing. What happens at the second midwife appointment? The sonographer told me to take the notes, and the scan photos with me so they could review them also. That was an extremely difficult day. I think the whole experience has made me a pretty nasty person. But even if I was there, I still think I would have wanted to see the detail on the scan. The first words I said were: "If there's anything wrong then it's my fault", I had been working 70, nearly 80 hours the previous weeks and pushed myself hard. We had amnio and then spent a week in absoute anguish waiting for the outcome which was no trisomies. I had to take a tablet there and then, under the supervision of a nurse, to end the pregnancy. The same rush of excitement. We use some essential cookies to make this website work. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, "it didn't look good" and that "my womb looked raggedy". And I can just remember flashing a look at you as if to say, 'Have I made a mistake here somewhere? chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet. Sometimes a post mortem was needed to confirm the 20-week diagnosis to see if the baby had inherited a genetic problem (such as Fowler syndrome - see 'Resources'). So when that happened to us I really didn't worry, I thought, you know, it was literally the baby was in awkward position, they couldn't see the heart and that was why. Some parents wondered if it was possible to have the same scan done at 16 weeks rather than 20 weeks. He then told us what the prognosis would mean for the child. After that I got, I, it was about in, in 19-, hang on a minute, 2001 I got pregnant again, slightly unexpectedly. There was cause for concern. I was experiencing some light bleeding for the past few days. I know I could have delivered him in a quarter of the time, but I couldn't bear the thought of him leaving me. All my instincts were to protect my belly, yet here I was allowing someone to stick a huge needle into it. Our position in our families has shifted. I was willing the results to be normal. And the local hospital wanted to send us off to the regional hospital to actually confirm that, and were not really prepared to say at that time that there was something very seriously wrong. He felt strong and fit and healthy. I couldn't really believe what they were saying. It felt like a lifetime to reach our 12-week-scan. Those two weeks were agonising for us both. So we hid in our house. You will be able to discuss this with your midwife or consultant. By the time I left the hospital, I was in shock. Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. It was a bit worrying but on the plus side I got an extra couple of scans and an extra couple of pictures. We went in, had a scan, I can't remember the exact sequence of events because the baby was still in the wrong position. We'll make an appointment with the senior sonographer, the consultant at the local hospital, and she'll do your scan and she'll be able to tell you more things'. But now that's changed. The gel makes sure there is good contact between the probe and your skin. In order for the sonographer to get good images of your baby, the scan is carried out in a dimly lit room. My partner watched the baby come out, and for a split second I saw a look of joy on his face. All pregnant women should be given the booklet by their midwife or GP Screening tests for you and your baby by Public Health England, which gives detailed information about the types of scan offered and what they are looking for. The thing about that which I felt was difficult is that we could tell when being scanned that there was something very seriously wrong. It can be such a shock so do whatever you need to feel better. At first, I still had to deal with the physical implications of having given birth. I was booked back in to discuss management options, if nothing had happened. We were denying him his life. The doctor told me he was 98% sure this was a failing twin pregnancy. No one else but my partner saw how similar he was to our son. We, I was with my mum, and they scanned and found choroid plexus cysts on the brain, which is just a mark, it's a marker on the brain, it's a, what they call a 'soft marker'. Still, the consultant thought things would be OK. So it was just, we were coming up to the 20-week scan and I was just getting more relaxed, just actually starting to look at maybe baby catalogues or, you know, going down the baby aisle at the shops, which I'd always avoided. All women are offered a dating scan, and an 18- 20 week fetal anomaly ultrasound scan, in line with NICE and UK National Screening Committee recommendations. I couldn't have the added responsibility for changing his mind. Spina bifida can usually be seen clearly on a scan and of those babies who have this condition, around 9 out of 10 (90%) will be detected. Getting through the 20 week scan - My BabyManual Life expectancy of 30 or 40. Intellectually, I knew this was not the case. From losing my dad to his battle with cancer, to then having to face another battle with cancer and my mum; thankfully she pulled though. I just feel very unlucky. Again the legs were quite twisted, they said that the baby's sternum was very short - things weren't in proportion you know - the head was quite large, the neck was very thick, there wasn't really like a neck as such it was just things were kind of - there were lots of things that obviously the consultant could see that we weren't aware of. My son's congenital heart defect was detected at the 20 week scan and he had 2 other markers, no . But here I was, minutes later, lying down, waiting. And they took us out of the scanning room, into a more quiet room while they typed up the report. I was told this was common as my body and hormones still thought I was pregnant. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. blood tests, CVS) were clear - and as one woman put it, 'after the triple test* (Down's syndrome screening) you stop thinking anything can go wrong'. Is it the same scan or is it the same equipment? This might be uncomfortable. This time, they discovered the baby has a two vessel cord (only one vessel from placenta to baby instead of two) and I've been monitored to make sure the baby grows properly and kidneys aren't damaged. It was over. Most scans show that babies seem to be developing as expected, and none of the 11 conditions are found. Usually, sonographers will ask a senior sonographer colleague to confirm findings and this should be done immediately. At first the closeness came through a sense of guilt. Being generous and kind generally happens only when you're happy. And for that whole time, my partner and I were both crying uncontrollably. And I, and, I felt the weight of deciding what to do about it. See more information about the 20-week ultrasound scan. A few people recalled how frightened and alarmed they became when they sensed that the atmosphere in the scanning room changed in an instant from 'jokey' to serious when the baby's problems were detected. Your mind has closed to the possibility that there could be anything wrong. Finally, Monday came and we went back to the hospital. When I told him what had happened, he refused to believe anything was wrong and said he'd sort it out when he came home. We went, I went in to the scanning room and they're quite bland facially anyway, whether everything's fine or not they just look at the screen to start off with and do measurements but I very quickly realised that the woman's demeanour wasn't, even for a bland face, was concerning. If this happens, you will be offered one further scan by 23 weeks of pregnancy. But on, in the middle of March, 10th March it was, we had a 20 week scan. My wife turned the screen away from her. I remember thinking, 'Gosh' I now know it was a girl, I didn't know that then, that, 'She looks just like her brother'. Away you go'. We didn't feel we could tell anyone what was happening. . By 7pm, I still hadn't delivered the baby. The same anxious wait for a little, pathetic cry. And it turned out the baby's heart wasn't forming properly, the chambers weren't forming properly. That they could have spotted something, or not? And I felt like a murderer. With my oldest it turns out she has a minor thing that affects 1 in 1000 of the population and wont harm her at all it's just "there" and with my second the issue turned out to be nothing. Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. And the next day we went back to the hospital and we had another scan with a specialist, and he confirmed it was a condition called holoprosencephaly, which I'd never heard of any of these words before, they were just such long words. Well, at the regional hospital it was a 3-D scan. He looked fine. Some people we talked to had not had a 18-20-week scan, either because their babies' abnormalities had been detected by earlier . And then, so I went to my next scan, which was the 20-week abnormality scan, and we took our first child with us, I think he was 17 months old at the time. I felt empty, scared, guilty and incredibly heartbroken. As two youngest siblings, we were both permanently stuck in the irresponsible, childish role. And of course some other measurements she needed to take like the width of the skull, which she couldn't take because the fetus was in the wrong position. I didn't want to be convincing him to agree with me. We were bound to each other because of the blood that was on both our hands. Surely he couldn't have missed anything else that is so serious x. After preparing myself to face having to take the medication. Immediately I knew what decision we should take. So once again we were right back down, really no, really not knowing what to expect. I hated my body and hated every feeling I was having. I couldn't bear to see the baby and asked the midwife to take him away immediately. It felt as if we had gone power crazy. Desperately trying to hold onto the glimmer of hope we'd been given. I had a horrible feeling of relief. And, for a few hours, I'm convinced I've made a terrible mistake. And the doctor - because it was a doctor rather then just the, a sonographer or whatever the correct term is - was scanning my wife, and she hovered over the heart of the baby and said, 'Oh there's the heart, we'll come back to that'. And I assumed my partner would feel the same. We had so much power, we could decide that this little thing should die. 12/12/2012 22:41. [Husband] couldn't make it. So that was it. SO much upset and needless angst has been caused by 'soft markers' found at scans. I had to stop myself from yanking out the needle. 80 percent of my pregnancies have ended in death and I felt like they were telling me those babies didn't matter. But my brain had been given a train of thought that was impossible to stop. And so we talked about it euphemistically, never saying the word "research". So on the Monday we went in to see the senior sonographer, I think she was a consultant at the hospital. And it was just a bit of a shock because it's not really what you want to hear - you don't really expect that. Purpose of screening. I could hardly breathe. By this time, we were tired. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here). After half an hour of lying on the bed, I was starting to get nervous, but was excited to find out that the baby would be a boy and that I could see his little heart beating strongly. Any delay in receiving more information about the abnormality and its implications will be distressing for women and this should be acknowledged. And it all seemed so near at hand, you know, 31, 30 weeks, you feel like you're nearly, you're on the home stretch. I was given a leaflet and told to return four days later to see the consultant. We felt as if we were in limbo. So she said, 'Come back on Monday. It was exactly like the labour I had with my first child. So I was a bit ignorant of the kind of things, you know, what the scans were really doing - maybe it was, a bit na've I think. The baby was very, very small. My partner tried to remain calm, and at my request rang my mum. I thought surely everything is ok, as they couldn't detect twins the week before. On the next shift, the new midwife asked us again. And they actually asked my husband to come in before they spoke to me. This one cannot show you anything, that's what's inside your mind. Never being able to look after himself. I went home feeling crushed; Sam and I both felt helpless. This was a ray of hope for us. We bought little outfits, teddies, and researched all the vitamins and foods that I could eat. It was, 'Oh we'll come back to that'. I was sent home with a leaflet, strong painkillers and two types of antibiotics. Fine, go on my own. And at that point I don't think we, I don't think we realised that there might have to be a decision, because we'd talked about it with, with Down's and the other possible problems, but at this point it was, well okay what can be done to fix the problem - because yes the heart's not developing properly but there must be something we can do. We understand the real meaning of "shit happens". There was an extra digit on one of the hands. The scan will look in detail at your babys bones, heart, brain, spinal cord, face, kidneys and abdomen. It was far too much power; neither of us wanted it. It was horrible. All my plans were beginning to fall down. The pain was excruciating, but nothing compared to how I felt inside. I had never imagined having an amniocentesis. Very occasionally this second scan cannot be completed, for example because: In this case you will not be offered another screening scan but you will offered an all over physical examination for your baby after birth. Sometimes it is difficult to get good views of a baby. As I lay down, and the sonographer started, I could see there was something wrong. The anomaly scan, also called the 20 week scan or mid-pregnancy scan, is used to detect pregnancy irregularities significant in diagnosis of any of the following conditions: In most instances no serious issue will be found during the scan and many parents-to be will come away knowing that all is progressing nicely and, perhaps, having found out . In most cases the scan will show that your baby appears to be developing as expected but sometimes a condition is found or suspected. And I'm glad I did and she's glad she didn't. I want to enjoy my son again, without any reservations. Only this time, no cry came. The appointment usually takes around 30 minutes. It felt so wrong. So at 20 weeks I went for my scan with my husband, with my daughter, to get our photographs. Possibly with hindsight we could have been more worried about it, but was probably a good thing we weren't, because we weren't worried about anything basically. I give obsessively to charity, especially those linked to sick children. Maybe our son would have overcome his problems, survived his illnesses, led a happy life. It was all going wrong and I wanted to get as far away from the hospital as possible. The midwife was on the verge of tears and I felt responsible. I noticed the box of tissues on the table. The sonographer will be able to tell you the results of the scan at the time. The nursery I had selected for our two-year-old son; my maternity leave; the bunk beds; the summer holiday suitable for a newborn baby. I think what everyone is saying is that most likely outcome is that there are no problems at all. We talked about the different sorts of pain relief I could have and I opted for a morphine drip, which I could control. Soon, the doctor came and inserted the tablets that would induce labour. He felt doing more blood tests would only cause me more discomfort and false hope. We talked all night and thanked God for crap television. Some say this estimate is really below the reality, and the out-of-pocket average costs are higher. There was complete silence during the scan. Somehow, I walked from the sofa up to the bathroom and told my partner. I then found that soft markers means 'vague unproven suggestion of a link', and that echogenic locii are small concentrations of calcium which are incredibly common and harmless. We left the hospital a couple of hours later. It's, I mean you can't tell from these scans what you're looking at really, but I remember thinking, 'it just doesn't look quite right' or something, but I didn't give it much thought. He was tiny, perfect and a Down's syndrome baby. When he came back, he agreed on a termination. Saturday came. Limitations of the 18-20 week scan And it's like, I really wanted to see it and I didn't, and it was it was very mixed. For five months my body had known there was something wrong, yet I had felt fantastic. Cardiac surgery can do some amazing things. And I remember, the first thing I remember when something might be wrong, was I saw, I finally, we finally saw an image of the skull on the screen, and there appeared to be a sort of black hole shape in the middle. And as, and as soon as I saw the pictures of the scan, having had two normal pregnancies, even I could see that there was a marked contrast between this pregnancy and the pictures that I'd had previously. The doctor gave her consent, and I took the four little tablets. But for those few days they were torture. Could you tell? Try to relax and take it easy. DS had 2 soft markers: talipes (club foot) and 'echogenic locii' somewhere - heart I think. Most scans are carried out by specially trained staff called sonographers. I was then told yet again bad news. Sometimes doctors will wait to give the baby more time to develop and carry out repeat scans - this had confused several parents we talked to who had gone for repeat scans not knowing that the baby might have a problem. I want to stop having such horrible thoughts. And in this instance the scan was very evident that there was something very seriously wrong. No, we really didn't, with hindsight we probably should have, but not at all, it never occurred to us to be worried about it. I felt sad, but not the complete devastation of the last scan as they had seen a change of some sort. We'd just spent some time away on a, on a summer holiday and come back expecting to have this scan and be told, 'All fine. I tried to show him the notes and the photos. (See. They said the brain was okay -, We were in there for a matter of minutes, literally -, In and out. You could see her face, and the major aspect that was, that was the indication of what was wrong was the thickening at the back of the neck in this instance, which, when you're looking at a fetus is, you know, sort of half a centimetre thicker or not is completely immaterial to me, and would look like a completely normal neck, but from the point of view of the consultant was severely abnormal. I felt crushed, I wanted him to at least acknowledge what had been found already. Went back a week later for the scan and, you were with me for this one, weren't you? Three midwives came and went. She describes having to make a . I wanted to let nature take its course. It is as though our pain means we've earned the right to be taken more seriously. He's now had the all clear and is wriggling round on . Some hospitals do offer earlier anomaly scans of the baby, but they will not show as much detail as scans performed between 18 and 20weeks. That's fine. The first result, which tells you if the baby has Down's syndrome, is ready in three days, but the other chromosomal problems cannot be eliminated for up to three weeks. It seemed inconceivable that we would not be having a baby in May. The doctor explained the options I had to manage my miscarriage. If necessary, you will be referred to a specialist, possibly in another hospital. So we gave up and said we'd arrange the funeral ourselves. Unfortunately I was not met with a compassionate sonographer. She advised I be referred to the EPU to be assessed. There were also two spots on his heart, which were "soft markers" for Down's syndrome. Perhaps because we are alone in this, it has brought my partner and me very close. factor is very strong. Bad news at 20 week scan, please help. | Mumsnet Sometimes women were told that the sonographer had found a 'marker' or sign of a chromosomal condition and had to wait for an amniocentesis to confirm the findings. We don't know, but it's not looking good'. For example, some babies have a condition called open spina bifida, which affects the spinal cord. Some of the other conditions, such as heart defects, are more difficult to see. Seeing your baby on a screen can be really exciting. But that was too easy. If you are not sure, you can contact them and ask. Despite this new discovery, the sonographer was still concerned. I still feel guilty, I still cry at random times. We would terminate the pregnancy. The rarest scenario is that the baby is severely ill and choices will need to be made. Christmas came and went in a blur of emotion, it felt so wrong to be celebrating when we were in such turmoil. This publication is licensed under the terms of the Open Government Licence v3.0 except where otherwise stated. And so this one can't tell you anything, it's pictures, you're going, you're going to see your baby, you're going to get pictures. Registered office: Nicholas House, 3 Laurence Pountney Hill, London, EC4R 0BB. I think they perhaps could have done, if they had looked a bit closely. I came back probably about 17 weeks pregnant and had the anomaly scan at 20 weeks and like most people expected everything to be fine and to come away with a lovely picture but unfortunately that isn't what happened. We were told to go to the hospital immediately. We scattered his ashes over a bunch of snowdrops. Apologise for somehow doubting their right to be in this world. That was the first time I had heard him cry. I managed to tell my mum, who said she would come with us to the hospital. Sometimes a post mortem was needed to confirm the 20-week diagnosis to see if the baby had inherited a genetic problem (such as Fowler syndrome - see '. We've got the same battle scars. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. But other than that everything was fine. But she told us, she told us, she gave us some more detail, she said, 'There's this, there's a big gap in the brain where there shouldn't be'. Bad news at 20 week scan | Mumsnet Can you remember that minute. She didn't want to see the baby. The following is a quote from their report: If the scan reveals either a suspected or confirmed abnormality, the woman should be informed by the sonographer at the time of the scan. I did think it was a bit strange that she wasn't talking, and then she sort of said, 'Oh, I think there's a problem. And my husband, we never got to sit next to each other in the consulting room, my husband was across the room from me, and I was sat next to the consultant, and we were laughing and joking with him about, you know, the home delivery, and everything was going to be, 'Are you still on for the home delivery?' Has anyone been told the wrong sex at 20 week scan? 'Yes, if that's okay with you,' kind of thing, like you do. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. Specialist scans are performed in specialist fetal units and if clinicians feel that there might be problems scanning will be done up to 32 weeks. I was disgusted - disgusted that such a tablet existed, let alone that I should have to take it. I can feel my child kick, it responds when he shouts at football - I mean literally, this baby used to dance around whenever he'd like scream at a goal - and there cannot be anything wrong with this child because it's part of us already. Just doing it. And with each one we had to have the same conversations. So he went out for a walk. There's nothing wrong, you know, we've had all the tests, everything's fine,' and being very upbeat about it all. And they took me into another room. It wasn't measuring at all the right measurements for the age - there was a heart defect, the limbs were sort of distorted, the arms were, you know - you could see that the arms were very sort of contracted, the hands were contracted. It was probably all right but hadn't had any fluid in it at the moment. This short video explains screening for 11 physical conditions in pregnancy. If you think you may have a medical emergency, call your doctor, midwife or hospital immediately. And they, sort of two of them were looking at the scan machine and then they sort of switched everything off and said, 'Oh, I think we have, might have a problem'. Some parents wondered if it was possible to have the same scan done at 16 weeks rather than 20 weeks.
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